When you speak of wrestling managers in the era of the territories many faces and names come to mind. Some were colorful and entertaining, some were boring and insignificant, and still others were just plain annoying (which of course meant they were doing their job well). But only one man can be remembered as truly ominous: PLAYBOY GARY HART! He never yelled or ranted; he never created lies about or made fun of his men’s opponents. He just told you exactly what he planned to do and it happened. You knew if Hart said he was going to run your favorite hero out of town or hurt him, it was going to happen.

At age 64, after several years of semi-retirement from wrestling, Hart has thrown himself into two new projects: Heroes of World Class, a video documentary of the Von Erich wrestling dynasty, and the publication of his autobiography, Gary Hart: My Life in Wrestling – Three Decades of Excellence, which will be released later this year.

But where and when did this unique character of the squared circle get his start?

Gary Richard Williams was born in Evansville, Indiana on January 24, 1942. Shortly thereafter the Williams family relocated to Chicago. Gary was one of four children and had no father.

GARY HART: My mother was in the restaurant business and I was more or less raised by my grandmother and my sister. It was rough because she was always working. I was a typical inner city kid. We were poor but really didn't realize it because no one we knew had much.

KAYFABE WRESTLING: When did you first discover pro wrestling?

GH: I used to go back to Indiana to visit an uncle and he got me started watching it with him. I was probably ten years old. They got Wrestling at the Chase the show from St. Louis and I saw guys like Lou Thesz, Rip Hawk, Sonny Meyers and all the other old greats from the 50s. It really caught my imagination and when I went back to Chicago I discovered we got the New York wrestling show and the local wrestling from the Marigold Arena.

KW: Were you an athlete in school?

GH: Yes I was a competitive swimmer and that’s actually how I got into wrestling. I was at a swim meet when I was 18 and met Billy Gills. He was the match maker for Fred Kohler’s promotion and also was the Midwest Heavyweight champion. I told him how much I enjoyed watching him on TV and he invited me to go to the next live card at the Marigold Arena. That was my first live show. After the matches we talked for a long time. He asked me what I did for a living and I told him the truth, that I worked for the syndicate. I made collections and things like that. Billy and I became friends and eventually I asked him about getting into wrestling. He told me he would train me but I had to stop the illegal stuff I was doing. I really wanted to wrestle but I needed to make a buck so I lied to him and said I quit which I didn't. He trained me for a little over a year before I had my first match.

KW: Who was that first match with and do you remember when it took place?

GH: May 4, 1960. It was a 15 minute Broadway against Sailor White. My next match was a TV match against an old timer named Tiger Malloy.

KW: Where did the name Playboy Gary Hart come from?

GH: “Williams” was to long and I wanted something that would fit on the marquee, so I came up with Gary Hart. As you know, Chicago is the main headquarters for Playboy and I just liked the name Playboy Gary Hart. Billy didn't think that was going to work for me and he named me “Hurricane Hart,” and said I was from Orlando Florida. I changed it to Playboy Gary Hart when I went to Detroit a few years later.

KW: So you were working in Chicago as Hurricane Hart on the undercard and what happened next?

GH: About a year went by and Angelo Poffo came back to Chicago. His manger Bronco Lubich had gone in a different direction and he was looking for a new second/tag partner. Billy introduced me and after about four months Angelo decided I should be his manager. We were together for about a year and a half.

KW: And after Poffo?

GH: That was around the time when the WWWF pulled out of Chicago over the switching of the NWA title from Buddy Rogers to Lou Thesz. A promoter by the name of Jack Pfeffer came in and Billy told me to stay away from him. Billy sent me to Detroit to work for Burt Ruby. While in Detroit I met another young guy named Jim Meyers, who was working under a mask as The Student. We were as different as any two people could be. I was a poor street kid from Chicago who worked for the syndicate and Jim had just graduated from Michigan State University, where he played football. We became good friends and I began managing him. That’s when I decided I liked managing more than wrestling. It just seemed more natural for me. I had a good eye for talent and had lots of ideas. Jim and I headlined for Ruby and also worked for Eddie Farhat, The Sheik. We worked against guys like Bobo Brazil, Lou Klein, Ricky Cortez, Mr. Clean and Mark Lewin. As you know Mark and I worked together quite a bit over the years.

KW: You always stood out as a totally different persona than the other managers. How did you develop your managerial style?

GH: I never wanted to be the typical bad guy, cliché wrestling manager. I always talked to the audience in a way that they understood that I was angry and I was evil, but at the same time I wanted to do it in a manner that they could understand what I was talking about and who I was talking about. On the occasions that I would raise my level of anger it was very noticeable because I didn’t do that very often. Interviews are so important in wrestling. If you are going to communicate, that is get your point across, then I believe you have to do it in a manner where you don’t alienate the people who are listening to you. If you speak softly, people listen harder. It was something I understood from my days in Chicago. When a really bad guy was telling someone what was going to happen if they didn’t pay the money they owed, he never raised his voice. He spoke softly and very matter of fact. If anything he almost whispered. That may have had an affect on me. It made me understand that serious people don’t rant and rave.

KW: Going back to Detroit in 63-64. You and The Student are headlining for Ruby and The Sheik and doing pretty well, I would guess. What happened next?

GH: Bruno Sammartino, who was WWWF champ, came through and approached Jim about coming to work for him in Pittsburgh. Jim was happy to jump at the chance but Bruno didn’t want me. He had different ideas for Meyers, who eventually became a huge star as George “The Animal” Steele. So I headed to Texas. I went to work for Dory Funk, Sr. in Amarillo. To say it was culture shock is an understatement. I grew up in a big city and then moved to Detroit, another big city, so Amarillo seemed desolate and barren to me. The money was good but the whole way of living and the long trips just were too much. I was only there for a few months and decided to head to Dallas.

Fritz Von Erich had been through Detroit and worked with us in the past. We got him over as a face and he liked me. He had offered me the chance to come work for him. There was a promotional war going on in Texas at that time between Morris Seigel and Von Erich. While working for Fritz I managed The Fabulous Kangaroos. At one point Paul Boesch and I ran into some money problems. I learned from Dory Sr. that I had value and he paid me well. So when Fritz and his crew tried to short my money I told them all to go fuck themselves and I went back to Detroit.

KW: While you were in Amarillo, who did you manage?

GH: When I worked for Dory Sr. I was wrestling not managing. He gave me the name “Gay” Gary Hart. I told him I wasn’t going to “prance” around the ring and do anything to belittle gay people. I just felt it was wrong. He told me he didn’t care what I did once I was in the ring I was going to be “Gay” Gary Hart and that was that. So between hating the long trips and the gimmick I was out of Amarillo pretty quick. I learned a lot from Sr. and always liked him and the boys -- I just couldn’t handle the rest of Amarillo.

KW: So you are back in Detroit, wrestling, managing?

GH: I was wrestling and looking for a new guy to manage. Billy Red Lyons came in for some spots for The Sheik and told me to call Fritz. I said no. I had helped him win the promotional war with Siegel -- I had turned him and Waldo face, they were drawing big money and he had screwed me. I wasn’t going to call him. I finally told Red Lyons to give Fritz my “no” and tell him if he wants me he can call me. And he did. We worked out the money issues and I was back in Texas.

Working for Fritz at that time brought me the man who would change my life in wrestling: Don Jardine, The Spoiler! Because of the success we had together I became a big name and I was always in demand. We had a great run for Fritz and then we headed to Australia to work for Jim Barnett. We did huge business there. Don was the first masked man to ever appear in Australia. Don was a great guy and always made sure we both were properly taken care of. Sweetest, nicest guy in the world, but if you gave him trouble he had no problem “solving” the problem how ever he had to. Some people say Gary Hart made a lot of guys, well let me say that Don Jardine, The Spoiler, made Gary Hart. We worked together on-and-off for over 20 years and he is the godfather to both of my kids.

KW: You spent most of the next four or five years in Australia didn’t you?

GH: Yes. Jim was so pleased with the business Don and I drew that he invited us back the following year. Don had a commitment in Japan so I brought Brute Bernard in with me, and the next run I worked with Ivan Koloff, and on the fourth run it was the tag team of Bulldog Brower and Brute Bernard. Between the third and fourth runs in Australia, I had a run in the Mid-Atlantic where I managed Rip Hawk and Swede Hansen. After that last run for Barnett, Brower and I headed back to Texas where we worked with Larry Hamilton, The Missouri Mauler. After a run of about six months we all headed to Georgia. That was during the time of the big promotional war between Ann Gunkel and the Fred Ward group. As most people know the Mauler and The Assassin are brothers. Assassin was working for Ann, so his brother and Brute followed him. I went to work for my old friend Jim Barnett, who was working with the competition. A few months into the run they fired Bill Watts as booker and brought in Jerry Jarrett. We never got along, Jarrett and me. First he told me I couldn’t talk to Larry and Brute because they worked for the competition and it went downhill from there. I go much deeper into the problems in my book. Just suffice to say that Jerry Jarrett made Nick Gulas look like a pillar of integrity. Jarrett was a thief. He stole from the wrestlers and even from the box office.

Needless to say my days in Georgia were numbered. Jim thought it best for me to head south to Florida to work with Bill Watts.

I came in under a mask as The Jackyl. I wanted to check out the guys and then see who I could manage. I saw this giant Korean named Pak Song. He had so much potential and the guy who was managing him wasn’t doing his job. I told Watts I found my man. Bill put me in touch with Hiro Matsuda and Duke Keomuka, who had brought Pak to this country, and we agreed I would manage him. Pak had amazing hands, he could break ANYTHING. We used to ask the fans to challenge Pak by bringing stuff for him to break. Rocks, bricks, boards, it didn’t matter. In one video package we did a little later we had him smash full beer cans. They actually exploded from the force of his chops. Remember back in '74-75 you didn’t have pop tops on cans.

KW: Okay, so it's ‘74 you are in Florida. Pak Song and you are working together and Dusty Rhodes is there as well. How did the big face turn take place? Whose idea was it, yours, Dusty's, Watts’?

GH: Let me go back a little as far as my history with Dusty goes. Back in Texas, this big young blonde kid named Virgil Runnels came to me for help. Don thought he had a great look and we both recognized something in him, so we tagged him up with Don and I managed them. Yes I managed dusty Rhodes and The Spoiler as a tag team in Texas in the mid ‘60s. There was a movie out then (A Face in the Crowd) with a character called “Lonesome Rhodes” and I suggested that as a name for him. He said, “I ain’t going to be LONESOME but I will be DUSTY". And he named himself Dusty Rhodes. A little later when I was in Australia, Dusty was there and our friendship grew further, so by the time we both were in Florida we knew and trusted each other. Anyway, Dusty was really hot as a heel in Florida, but he was on that fine line of love and hate with the fans. Eddie Graham and Bill Watts both felt it was time to turn him babyface. The match was made: Pak Song & Dusty Rhodes against Eddie & Mike Graham. Dusty turned on Pak in that match and the crowd went crazy. After a few weeks, in my interviews, I made some comments about him being the son of a plumber trying’ to live “The American Dream,” and it just stuck. We did huge business with Pak and Dusty. They sold out every building in Florida for 16 straight weeks. Now you have to remember we didn’t hit each building every month or six weeks -- we were back every week. Florida was doing more business at that time than probably any other promotion ever did!

KW: Filling all those buildings every week is a far cry from the WWE barely filling buildings every six months as it is today.

GH: You have to remember that with our TV our goal was to sell next weeks house show so we had 5-6 minutes of interviews on each show. If we had the show on a different channel in each town we inserted 5 minutes of interviews about that town’s next show. What they do now is just flash a little blurb “COMING TO MIAMI BEACH ON MAY 15th” on the screen. You don’t even know the main event. It's like selling a package like, say, the Ice Capades instead of a wrestling card. There are so many other options today as well. Back then you had loyal fans that were in that building every week. Today you get the casual fans.

KW: Going back to Dusty, it sounds like you were not only part of the creation of “The American Dream,” but were responsible for his first big break.

GH: Yes tagging with Don was his first opportunity and he took full advantage of it. He was a sensation and fit right into the main event spot. Here was a kid who hadn’t had more than 40-50 matches but he fit right in. There has only been one Dusty, and I have said this before and it may shock some people or hurt some feelings, but if there was never a Dusty Rhodes there would have never been a Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior or Rock! Dusty was the first guy who worked as a babyface and acted like a heel. Dusty created pandemonium in wrestling. He really did. I want to plug his new DVD, which you can get from the WWE. Those of you who are computer savvy know how to do it. I don’t, but if it’s Dusty it's six hours of entertainment. Once again I talk a lot more about my relationship with Dusty in my book so…

KW: Back to Florida, Gary Hart’s Army is trying to destroy “The American Dream.” You are selling out buildings everywhere and everyone is making big money…

GH: And it all came to an end on February 20, 1975 in the bay in Tampa. Buddy Colt, Bobby Shane, Mike McCord (who later became Austin Idol) and myself were in a light plane crash. That crash took Bobby Shane’s life and ended my career in Florida. I recuperated in Florida for several months and one day Jack Brisco came and asked me what my plans were. I told him that I was headed to Oklahoma to work as assistant booker for Bill Watts. I had been Bill’s assistant in Florida for most of my run there and he had moved back to Oklahoma and sent word that when I was healthy enough that I had a job waiting. Jack offered me the position as booker in Georgia. By this time Jim Barnett had bought out Ann Gunkel and the war was over. I told Jack I couldn’t work with Jarrett and I was assured he was gone. As part of the deal with Ann Gunkel, Jim Barnett took Tom Renesto as his booker. Some of Barnett’s group, like Fred Ward and Buddy Fuller, weren’t happy with that arrangement. I was brought in as Tom’s assistant, but for the most part I was the booker. Tom was a very gracious and helpful man and taught me a lot. First I brought Dicky Slater up from Florida to tag with Bob Orton, Jr. (who was already in Georgia). We put them into a program with Bob Armstrong and Robert Fuller. Then I brought in The Spoiler and got a program going with Wrestling II. Then I contacted Mark Lewin and got a program with him and Abdullah (the Butcher) going. Everything was going great for about a year and then I had a problem… (Gary chuckles)

KW: Gary it seems like you had a lot of p-r-o-b-l-e-m-s?

GH: (much more chuckling) Well yes I did… But I always made money for my guys They can say Gary was a problem but they can never say they didn’t make money with me. The situation was this. Because of Abdullah and all the blood and gore, the powers that be at TBS sent an edict down that there was going to be no more blood. They didn’t want any more blood on TV. Lewin was the master of the sleeper and The Spoiler was the master of the claw and I had this angle going claiming Mark’s sleeper was a choke hold. And unbeknownst to me Mark and Don decided there was going to be blood anyway. So Mark had me in the sleeper and Donald came off the top rope and kneed him in the back and then slapped on the claw. He opened Mark and there was blood everywhere. When they tried to joystick it Professor Tanaka jumped in the ring and tore Mark’s pants off leaving him in his BVDs. Turner’s people saw it and wanted to know who had produced the show and Jim told them it was Gary Hart. Ted Turner said, “I don’t want him on my TV station ever again!” And I was summarily let go...

KW: So it wasn’t even your fault this time. (Much laughter from both of us)

GH: No it wasn’t but I was the booker and someone had to go. The guys all felt bad about it, but it was done. So I headed back to Dallas to work for Fritz. That’s when I got the Von Erich boys started. I had Tony Charles and Les Thornton to train them and when Kevin was ready, he started. I feel I developed those kids. I was the booker and I set the direction of the company. I was one of the few guys who wanted to push them. Fritz was worried that guys wouldn’t want to job for his kids. You know how that was, right? If you know anything about kids, like Mike Graham. People detested him because he was Eddie’s son and he was getting the push. A few other guys wrestler's son's like Nick Gulas. His boy would say “daddy says you got to sell for me.” A lot of wrestlers at that time didn’t like the idea of going out and putting over these young kids. So what I did was bring in my own guys. I brought in Killer Tim Brooks, Don Jardine and Marky Lewin to work with the boys. That’s how the Von Erich's got their first push.

You know the promoter counts the money but the booker draws the money. A promoter can have a town and it’s the shits. Bring in the right booker and it's great. Take away that booker and it’s the shits again. A lot of times people don’t understand what bookers do. Because bookers in my time… (Gary changes his thought in mid stream)I have to say this again. Until I got into writing the book I would never admit to anyone I was a booker. I was a soldier of KAYFABE. I would have never told anyone that I adored the Von Erich boys. And that I was the match maker and TV producer for World Class and Championship Sports. You could have beat me with a stick and I wouldn’t have told you that because kayfabe was the God that we all honored in the OTHER WRESTLING BUSINESS. It took me many years to even discuss with people that wrestling was manipulated. My whole career consisted of kayfabe. Don’t crack smart to anyone. Don’t let anybody crack smart to you.

KW: Manipulate, that’s a great word to describe it.

GH: Well that’s what I did. You can manipulate something in a good or bad way. I manipulated the boys in a good way. When Kevin had his first match, he sold the building out. People wanted to see him. There was interest in Fritz’ boys so we manipulated that. People loved Kevin and wanted to see David, and when they saw him they loved him. And then they wanted to see Kerry. People wanted to see young exciting guys. Think about it. How many old guys were in World Class? Donald, Marky and me. We had a great crew Kevin, Kerry, David, Gino Hernandez, Killer Brooks, Spoiler and Marky. What a great crew. And when I brought a guy in, it was not just to job to Kerry or Kevin and disappear. He had a place in the big plan. I tried to put together a long term plan not just short programs. I used to watch the matches and the crowd reaction to the guys and that was how I decided who I was going to push and how far. You can get much further by developing a guy the people like, or hate, rather than creating an outlandish character like Kamala or The Missing Link and trying to shove it at the fans. I can draw money with anyone for a short time but give me a guy the people generally care about, either positively or negatively, and I will draw money for a long time with him. You can shove anything down the people’s throat for a while but eventually they regurgitate it back at you. That’s what happens with gimmicks some promoter decides he is going to push.

KW: Lets move to one of your greatest successes, The Great Kabuki.

GH: Originally the seed of the idea came to me while flying from Singapore to Hong Kong. I was looking through the little airline magazine and there was a picture of a Kabuki dancer. The long wig and the devil mask and the black and gold outfit. That was the picture I saw and I had always been a fan of Bruce Lee and kung fu movies. I always thought if I could find the right guy who was great at martial arts and catch as catch can wrestling and who could switch back and forth between the two that I could develop a hell of a guy. I realized that World War II was long over and just being Japanese was no longer good enough reason for people to want to spend money to see you get beat up. In the late 70s Mark Lewin and Gino and I had just finished a long run and Marky was going to Canada. I thought it was a great time to introduce this new guy I had been thinking of. I had been looking for just the right guy and Bruiser Brody told me he thought he had the one. He told me there was a guy named Taka Choi jobbing in Kansas that I should go look at. I went and met Taka and talked with him at length. He understood the Japanese culture and the Kabuki and I knew he was my man. Shortly after, I introduced him on World Class TV and the rest is history. The only problem I had with him was in the beginning he gave too much in his matches. He had always been a job guy and didn’t really know how to be a main event guy. Once he learned that he shouldn’t sell for his opponents and he was the star, he was fantastic!

KW: Weren’t there a few Kabukis?

GH: There were a flood of Kabukis. Every promotion wanted one. But they were all copies. I knew that would happen so I developed him slowly. It was over three months before he threw the green mist. We started with the different masks and the nunchuks and scythes, and then the spider webs he threw. I knew we would be copied so I brought him along slowly. A lot of people say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I don’t agree with that. I think that ripping someone's stuff off is disgusting and low life. I think rather than trying to come up with your own stuff, stealing someone else's stuff is like trying to steal their money...

KW: So how long did your run with Kabuki run, and what ended it?

GH: We did huge business in Texas and went to Georgia and did great as well and ended up in the Mid-Atlantic, where he had a huge run with Jimmy Valiant. They worked together exclusively for several months. Every night. The people just loved them. It just clicked like Pak Song and Dusty. Kabuki told me he needed to speak Japanese with someone so I brought in Mr. Sanota, who became The Magic Dragon. They tagged against Valiant and Pez Watley. After that Kabuki went back to Japan where he became a huge star working for Giant Baba.

And back to Texas for you?

GH: That’s right, I hooked up with Chris Adams and we started the program with Kevin. Then we added Gino and Kerry and had a really great run. Then I brought in the One Man Gang and cut his hair and changed his look and brought in Marky. Then Ken Mantell caught Mark smoking pot behind the building and fired him. I quit. Ken Mantell didn’t like me because I had Fritz’s ear. Even before I became a booker, once I realized who I was and what I had to offer, my deal with every promoter I ever worked for including Jim Barnett and the Crocketts was that I took care of my guys. I decided on their programs and who they would work with and when they would go off the main events to build up wins on the undercard etc. Most bookers were happy with that. Bill Watts loved it and Dory Funk, Jr. loved it. They didn’t have to worry about me and mine. Mantell resented it so we had constant battles. Then he fired my friend Mark for smoking dope in back of the building. I got mad and reminded him he and I had smoked a few numbers behind the building and it was not a firing offense. Then I left. Then I took some time off. Brody, Abdullah and I started booking ourselves independently and then…

And then… if you want to know the rest of Gary’s adventures in wrestling. What it was like working in WCW with Terry Funk. How he discovered and developed The Great Muta and, oh yeah, his problems with Jim Herd (EVERYONE HAD PROBLEMS WITH JIM HERD). Well then buy the book! Gary Hart: My Life in Wrestling – Three Decades of Excellence by Gary Hart and Phil Varriale

KW: Now back to Gary. What was the best rib you ever saw or were a part of?

GH: The first rib ever played on me really got me. It was back in Chicago and Billy Gills really got me. There was a board in the dressing room that had the card for the night so when I came in I saw Hurricane Hart vs. Jules Lorenz. Jules Lorenz was an old timer in his fifties. He was a shooter and a hooker (he could hurt you) and all the guys called him “Speedy." I went to Billy and asked how the match was going to go and he said “go ask Speedy” so I go over to him and say ”hey Speedy, what you want to do with me tonight"? He is putting on his boots and looks up at me and says, “who the fuck are you to call me Speedy, you young son of a bitch?! My heart started pounding and I ran over to Billy and said “Billy I got a problem. Mr. Lorenz is mad at me because I called him Speedy and.” He interrupted me and said ”Oh shit you didn’t call him Speedy…” I was shaking I was totally beside myself. This old guy could have killed me and all of a sudden Speedy came over and tapped me on the back. When I turned around my eyes must have been the size of half dollars and he says, “It's akay, kid. Everyone calls me Speedy.” That was the first rib ever played on me and it scared the shit out of me. I never liked ribs They could create problems between the boys and I always wanted a happy group that could work together. Stan Stasiak nearly got killed by the Soiler because he pulled “the Mabel rib” on him. And many years later he mentioned it in the car and Donald pulled the car over and beat him half to death.

KW: Was there anyone you could have worked with that you passed on that you regret?

GH: I think my biggest mistake I ever made was when I was in Atlanta. Leon White and I have a mutual friend named Steve Harms. I was in Denver and Steve and Leon and myself had a meeting. Leon told me he wanted to come to WCW and he wanted me to manage him. He gave me a tape and I told him that I was busy with terry Funk and The Great Muta. At that time I was just developing Muta and wanted to devote all my energy to him. Looking back I think I could have brought something to the table with Vader. It was just the wrong time for me. The other guy I would have liked to work with was Sid Vicious. I really liked Sid, and we got along, but I just felt I couldn’t devote enough energy to him because of Muta. I guess if I could go back and change things I would have to liked to work with both those guys.

KW: was there ever anyone who you never crossed paths with that you would have liked to have managed?

GH: Yes, and his name is Bret Hart! I admired him for years and was never around him. We were both at a fan fest in Charlotte and my friend Sir Oliver Humperdink introduced us. I don’t want to sound like a mark but it was great to meet him He was someone who I always thought was special and would loved to have worked with.

KW: If you could put together your dream stable of wrestlers, either guys you had or guys you never worked with past, present, whatever, who would be your ultimate group of four or five?

GH: The Spoiler, Maniac Mark Lewin, Curtis Iaukea and Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

KW: Really?

GH: I admire them tremendously. I also admire Kurt Angle. I think those guys are fabulous. I really do. I think they are guys who will carry on the legacy of wrestling and leave it as good as they found it.

KW: Was there ever anyone you were put together with that you really weren’t happy with? It just wasn’t right for you?

GH: (Gary answers very quickly) Yes... Jeep Swenson. I did it as a favor to Bruiser Brody. Another was Nord the Barbarian. Once again I did it as a favor to Bruiser Brody. Usually I wouldn’t be with anyone that I didn’t want unless a friend really insisted. Brody and I were very close friends and I worked with Swenson and it was horrible. And it was really horrible with Nord, as well. Brody was a great in-ring talent, but as far as recognizing talent he didn’t have a clue. If he liked you, that’s all he needed to know. I liked a lot of guys but that didn’t mean I was going to put them on top. I have some really dear friends that I used wherever I could, but that didn’t necessarily mean they should be on top. No disrespect to anyone, but everyone has their place on the card and they are all just as important.

KW: Lets talk about Heroes of World Class.

GH: Heroes of World Class is a work of love by a young guy named Brian Harris, from Chicago. He was a big World Class fan and his hero was Kevin Von Erich. He approached me four years ago and wanted to do this project and wanted my help. We got together, got Kevin, John Mantell, Bill Mercer and Mickey Grant and we told the true story of World Class -- how it began what it was all about and how it fell into oblivion. It’s a straight-forward story. Its very emotional. I cry sometimes when I watch it. It shows you -- and I don’t mean this in a bad way and I don’t want anyone to take this wrong -- Vince McMahon and all his glory, and all he has done for wrestling, he wasn’t the one who invented modern wrestling. It was Mickey Grant. It’s in color and it’s in black and white. You can see it right before your eyes. You can see where modern wrestling began. It was World Class not the WWF. I am not taking anything away from Vince. I feel that he has done marvelous things for wrestlers. The way that he takes care of his guys when they are injured the way he looks after their families and the amounts of money that he pays them. My old friend george “The Animal” Steele still gets a check every year for novelties. He has done wonderful things for wrestling, but he did not create modern wrestling. That was Mickey Grant, Bill Mercer and myself. It’s not a typical wrestling DVD it’s a documentary film. There’s a lot of wrestling footage on there. You will see Bruiser Brody, The Freebirds at their peak, Gino Hernandez, Chris Adams and all the Von Erich Boys. It's just a marvelous film and I feel anyone that was a World Class fan should have it. It runs a little over 2 ½ hours and I am very proud of Brian. He did a marvelous job. I recommend it to anyone who is a serious student of wrestling. You will not only learn how wrestling is manipulated but you will also understand some of the tragedy that took place in World Class.

KW: So, how do we get the DVD?

GH: You can order HEROES OF WORLD CLASS at www.rightherepictures.com. I am very proud of this project. It’s the way I want to be remembered. Brian did a great job.

KW: And the book?

GH: Well as we said, the book Gary Hart: My Life in Wrestling will be out later this year, and Phil did a fantastic job as well. I am very proud of both projects.

** A big thank you to everybody who took part in this interview, especially Mr. Hart, himself **